Open Gaming License

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Offline wasahbe

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Open Gaming License
« on: January 11, 2019, 07:40:16 PM »
A friend of mine is getting back into DMing after years of gaffiation.  He is looking for a system that has an integrated magic system, core mechanic that is consistent, scales well, and is not overweighted with exceptions that have to be memorized -- like a billion Feats and ginormous spell lists.

I have a gazillion game PDFs from back when I was doing research for a modern Tri Tac system, so we have been comparing notes.  I added that I had settled on Fate/Fudge back in 2012 (got 50 pages in on the Tri Tac version before my mom got sick and pulled me away from gaming), but hadn't looked at the new stuff for a while, and would be interested if there was anything open source that was more appropriate for Tri Tac. 

I added the criteria that it should be good for more than a pick-up game at a con and shouldn't lock down player options to specific class roles.  Richard and I have both run campaigns that lasted for years and Richard wrote for  non-specialized "everyman" characters.

Any suggestions?  Hardware Hinterland 2nd Edition is almost finished and we'll be deciding on our next project soon.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline ORtrail

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 12:09:30 AM »
The Mythic D6 system is fairly new, but with roots in the old D6 system.  It is intended for more heroic type characters, but was intended to be a multi-genre RPG.  Consider any super powers as magic instead and you are good to go. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/243769/MYTHIC-D6-Revised--Expanded?src=newest

My other thought would be some version of a D100 system.  You get competent characters right from the start, but with rare exceptions most won't ever become powerful enough to battle old dragons.  A free starter version of the Basic Role Playing book can be found here:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/82093/Basic-Roleplaying-Quickstart-Edition?src=also_purchased

The BRP book is not really supported with the focus Chaosium has on Call of Cthulhu and Runequest, but there is a ton of material and conversion between similar D100 systems is usually painless.  OpenQuest is a simplified D100 system that is also worth a look. 

As I mentioned in another thread, I'll be running a Fringeworthy game next month at a nearby con, using a tweaked version of the River of Heaven RPG (which was built on OpenQuest).  I'll be shocked if the players have any issues understanding the game system and can't focus on enjoying the alternate portal exploration. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/137589/River-of-Heaven

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2019, 06:45:05 AM »
Thanks.  Looking into them!
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 09:05:15 AM »
OK.  Hardwired Hinterland has been out for a month.  Time to get to work on this.

We decided to stick with d100 for our update of the Tri Tac classic system.  Richard preferred it, TT players are used to it.

OpenQuest and Revolution d100 are easiest to license.  Which would you prefer of these two?

If neither, is BRP or Mythras (or something else you like) *really* enough better for us to jump through the extra hoops needed to satisfy Chaosium or The Design Mechanism? 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline ORtrail

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 12:02:06 PM »
I don't own a version of the Revolution d100 system, so I can't really comment on that in detail.  The OpenQuest system is closer to a bare bones version of d100, which is not a bad thing.  Start simple and add more detail as desired. 

Almost any version of a d100 system would work though, so it comes down to the other issues, like getting a license. 

The two players I had for my Fringeworthy game at RadCon had NEVER played a Chaosium/Basic Role Playing/d100 game.  They had zero issues understanding percentage chances.  The system gets out of the way and you focus on the adventure instead. 

« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 12:13:32 PM by ORtrail »

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Offline BigJackBrass

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2019, 01:14:39 AM »
I can't see any great advantage to going for BRP or Mythras, to be honest: Mythras is more complicated and BRP as a separate entity seems to be stagnant and not have the name recognition you might expect. OpenQuest seems like the more logical choice.

One thing I would strongly suggest considering is to drastically slim down the skill lists. Fewer, broader skills is clearly the more popular option in modern games and I can't imagine that the traditional Tri Tac approach of scores of briefly described skills winning many converts these days.

I do hope you'll keep the optional super-simple systems for quick kills etc, which I always found to be very handy and an overlooked feature of the games.
‘If a man does not make new acquaintance as he advances through life, he will soon find himself left alone. A man, Sir, should keep his friendship in constant repair.’
- Samuel Johnson

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2019, 01:28:26 AM »
Yeah, skills will be severely pruned back.  Hit location charts will go.

I do want to keep Richard's division of Agility for acrobatics and Dexterity for fingersmithing.

Any other requests?

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline ORtrail

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2019, 02:27:46 AM »
Throwing around some ideas here:

Often there is a more heroic option for building characters.  Hit points for example are often an average of SIZ (size) and CON (constitution).  You could make the characters tougher by making hit points CON +1pt per SIZ point over 12 and WIL (willpower) over 13. 

The damage bonus is another area where I'd consider making changes.  It goes from 0 damage bonus up to adding 1D4, then to 1D6, then to 2D6, then 3D6, and so on.  Seems like a big leap when it might be 1 pt of strength separating no damage bonus from an extra 1D4, let along another 1D6 bonus. 

A more gradual progression of (in effect) adding 1D2 would be interesting to see, and you include that damage into one dice roll where possible.  For example; A sword at 1D8 damage goes up to a 1D10 if the character is strong and/or big enough for one step damage bonus.  The next step would be 1D12 (or 2D6 if you want which is even better), then 1D8+1D6, then 2D8, etc.

On the subject of weapons?  I'm more about broad strokes there.  Light Melee 1D6 (daggers, small clubs) Medium Melee 1D8 (broadsword, axe, spear) and then Heavy Melee 1D10 (great sword, two handed axe or spear).  You could group energy pistols/rifles into similar groups, maybe with a bonus of +1/+2 damage for good measure.

Random armor value is an extra combat step, but fun when you don't use hit locations but want some variety versus the certainty that chain mail will absorb 4pts of damage each and every time.  A 1D6 roll would add a lot of drama.   

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 03:56:48 AM »
Cool.  Keep the ideas coming.  I have already figured out how to increase hit points.

I checked with my collaborators, and the consensus was to go with Revolution d100 instead of OpenQuest. 

http://www.alephtargames.com/en/revolution-d100-menu

http://www.alephtargames.com/images/ogl/rd100_srd.zip

http://www.rpgmeeting.org/en/component/hikashop/product/download/file_id-244
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline ORtrail

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 01:22:45 PM »
Interesting take on the D100 system.  I do like that they have tried to create a universal version so you can play in most any setting.  Hit location seems baked into this version, so that will need some adjustment.  RevolutionD100 seems focused on classic, ancient combat, which is not a bad thing, but quick and easy modern combat would be important to a Fringeworthy game. 

Looking at the sample character sheet, the broader and shortened skill list is great -with room to add more specific skills as needed.  A second page would be handy though; background, equipment, maybe some character art. 

I do wish Alephtar Games had a full modern or sci-fi setting book though.  I'd like to see how they would have tweaked the system to less of a historical/fantasy take.  The Conspiracy Theory is a start I guess. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/224824/The-Conspiracy-Theory?manufacturers_id=2555

Just for reference/comparison you could look at Ringworld or Future-World (from the Worlds of Wonder boxed set) as examples of sci-fi games done with a D100 system.  Long out of print though, and I don't think even Future-World has been released in PDF form.  Maybe River of Heaven or RQFirearms would be useful? 


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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2019, 07:22:46 AM »
Thanks.  Maybe I have to give hit locations a second look.  I just knew that Richard's extremely detailed hit location charts was one of the things that most GM's handwaved as a matter if course. 

I scanned through my horde of old gaming books.  River of Heaven is available on DirectRPG, the others aren't.  But I do have the d100 Delta Green and M-Space  Would those help?

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline BigJackBrass

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2019, 08:24:31 AM »
You specifically mentioned licensing so this might not be relevant, but at the moment there is considerable discussion about how the Chaosium D100 system relates to the OGL, in particular whether systems derived from it such as Legends from Mongoose can actually be OGL without Chaosium approval.

There's a statement and short thread on the Basic Roleplaying forum here: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9809-just-a-reminder-there-is-no-ogl-for-brp-rq-or-coc/

However, for the main debate and how Chaosium kicked the whole thing off with their response to an attempt to make an OGL Cthulhu RPG you need to read the Yog-sothoth.com forum. In order to reduce spam you'll need to register in order to see the site, but it's entirely free: https://www.yog-sothoth.com/forums/topic/33031-open-cthulhu-announcing-public-beta-release-of-open-cthulhu-srd/
‘If a man does not make new acquaintance as he advances through life, he will soon find himself left alone. A man, Sir, should keep his friendship in constant repair.’
- Samuel Johnson

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2019, 10:11:23 AM »
Quote
However, for the main debate and how Chaosium kicked the whole thing off with their response to an attempt to make an OGL Cthulhu RPG you need to read the Yog-sothoth.com forum. In order to reduce spam you'll need to register in order to see the site, but it's entirely free: https://www.yog-sothoth.com/forums/topic/33031-open-cthulhu-announcing-public-beta-release-of-open-cthulhu-srd/

Registration is suspended.  Area is member only.  ::Sigh::

Trying to decide if the whole project is dead in the water.  The OGL from Revolution d100 leans heavily on RuneQuest, though not BRP or CoC.  I am getting so tired of finding pitfalls after I've already fallen into them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 10:12:59 AM by wasahbe »
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law

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Offline BigJackBrass

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2019, 10:20:33 AM »
I thought it best to mention this discussion as several publishers have expressed concern that their existing or in progress works could fall foul of Chaosium's claims, despite those publishers believing that they had been acting in accordance with the terms of the OGL. If you like I can check with Paul at YSDC about opening registration so you can read what's been happening.

Edit: Just occurred to me that Paul may have gone on holiday this weekend, which would explain why registration is on hold.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 10:28:56 AM by BigJackBrass »
‘If a man does not make new acquaintance as he advances through life, he will soon find himself left alone. A man, Sir, should keep his friendship in constant repair.’
- Samuel Johnson

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Offline wasahbe

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Re: Open Gaming License
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2019, 10:25:01 AM »
Quote
I thought it best to mention this discussion as several publishers have expressed concern that their existing or in progress works could fall foul of Chaosium's claims, despite those publishers believing that they had been acting in accordance with the terms of the OGL. If you like I can check with Paul at YSDC about opening registration so you can read what's been happening.

Yes please. Now I remember why we decided on FUDGE when we looked at this stuff before.  I wrote Steffan O'Sullivan and he said "Sure."
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. 
--Gehm's corollary to Clark's Third Law